The basic plots

The Internet Public Library has an interesting article called The “Basic” Plots in Literature. It has five different lists of basic plots, with one, three, seven, twenty, and thirty-six basic plots on the lists.

The story of a club

Our next book, to be discussed beginning March 15, will be Sons of Mississippi: A Story of Race and Its Legacy by Paul Hendrickson. It is the true story of the men in this photograph.

In a related story

This story goes well with the book.

Science experiment

I get the impression most of not all of you don't read a lot of sci-fi. How did this book measure to your expectations? How does it compare to other science fiction you might have read?

War, what is it good for?

What did you think Haldeman was trying to say about war? Would you call this an antiwar book? Or is it pro-war with a comment on how veterans are treated or misunderstood?

Landing on Uranus

What did you think of Haldeman's treatment of heterosexuality and homosexuality? And did the promiscuity of the soldiers seem realistic, or did it date the story as something written in the late '60s or early '70s?

'90s remix

My edition of "The Forever War" is the rerelease from 2001. Haldeman explains in the foreward that an earlier reprinting tried to change all of the dates, but it really just screwed everything up and it ended up with confusing anachronisms. He instructs readers to just think of it as an alternate reality that happened a decade ago. Were you able to do this, or were references to the '90s distracting?

Timely traveler

Joe Haldeman wrote "The Forever War" as a metaphor for his experiences as a veteran of the Vietnam War. The war was ongoing as the work was published. Having read it with the benefot of hindsight more than thirty years after the war, how successful was he? And how much do you think the book applies to today's wars and what our vets might be going through?

"The Forever War"

When do we start discussing "The Forever War"? Would that be the 15th?

A happy ending?

This was the sort of novel where I expected it to end tragically, that all of these flawed characters would finish their storylines on a hopeless note. Instead, most of the characters get a happy, or at least hopeful, ending, from Jones to Mr. Levy to crazy Trixie to Ignatius, who may be using Myrna at the end to escape, but finishes with this:

"He stared gratefully at the back of Myrna's head, at the pigtail that swung innocently at his knee. Gratefully. How ironic, Ignatius thought. Taking the pigtail in one of his paws, he pressed it warmly to his wet moustache."

Not only is there the promise of a deeper relationship with Myrna, and a future with somebody who understands him, but it was the first moment that Ignatius seemed to be operating with any clarity. How hopeful!

Similarities, influences?

I told KC that "Confederacy of Dunces" reminded me of something I'd read before and finally made the connection. It's a great, absurd play called "Oh Dad, Poor Dad, Mama's Hung You in the Closet and I'm Feelin' So Sad." The protagonist, Madame Rosepettle, is a lot like Ignatius: Distorted worldview, sexually repressed and delivers snappy, pseudointellectual dialogue.

I don't know whether it's something the author would have seen (the play debuted in the early '60s), but it occurs to me now that there's a similar, sort of Oedipal strain: Ignatius depends on his mother and becomes frightened when she gains friends, then a suitor; Madame Rosepettle depends on her son and becomes threatened when he gains a friend and suitor.

But the play also has a dangerous Venus flytrap.

Anyway, I don't know whether anyone read into any other possible cultural influences, besides the book of philosophy kc was looking into.

Dunces with Wolves

Frieda Club, Betty Bumper, and Liz Steele are portrayed as pack of hostile lesbians. The male homosexuals, such as Dorian, are much less aggressive. What do you think of how the books gay characters are portrayed?

OT: Who's heard of Nashville Pussy?

(Sorry, test post. Thanks for the invite, Erin.)

Dunce and Sensibility

Who do you think is the most sensible character in the book? And who
is the biggest dunce?

Dunce fever

What did you think was the book's funniest moment or moments?

If "Seinfeld" were a novel ...

One of the publishers who rejected "The Confederacy of Dunces" did so on the basis that it wasn't "about anything." What, if anything, do you think it was about?

George's pick

OK, I'll let kc have her pick back, so we'll go with my first choice:


This was one of my favorite science fiction books. "The Forever War" first appeared as a serial in "Analog" then was released as a novel, winning the Hugo and Nebula awards in the mid-'70s. It's considered a response to "Starship Troopers," a pro-military book by my favorite sci-fi writer, Robert Heinlein. Joe Haldeman was a Vietnam vet, and "The Forever War" was pretty topical when it came out, and maybe is still so today. I guess we'll find out.

Also, I'd suggest trying to get the one with the above cover if you can. The first novelization was a bit censored, and the update from the early '90s wasn't quite right, either. This one, released recently, is the supposedly the version the author intended.

Kim's pick

OK, I am going to choose a book, but consider this George's pick, and he can have my turn next month. I've been pondering what you said, G, about dropping out of the club,and here's what I concluded: If you are living a life that prohibits you from reading even one book a month, then you have to change your life. In your case, that means you'll have to quit nursing school. There. A solution. You can thank me later.

In any case, my pick is "The Bridges of Madison County."

Kidding.

I actually gave this a lot of thought. I toyed very seriously with "The Name of the Rose." I even went to Borders last night and bought it, but I decided it was too long and that its dense ramblings about the history of Catholicism and monastic orders probably would not be of general interest. It's a really fun story, though. So I'll give it more thought, and maybe it will turn up as my next pick. I also thought about a short story collection by Ellen Gilchrist or an E.M. Forster novel, but my last book was British, so I passed on that.


What I came up with is John Kennedy Toole's "A Confederacy of Dunces," which is very comic, very American, and, as you'll see, a very touching tribute to New Orleans.

A fallen woman

From kc:

The scene where Evelyn tripped carrying the milk was very telling regarding her role in the family. All the bottles break. She lies injured in the shattered glass and spilled milk. And everyone either just stares or runs away. No one helps her. It's like the whole family is paralyzed by the notion that the CAREGIVER needs CARE. What are we supposed to do? Normally in a situation like this we'd go get mom. And there's even a sense that they are a bit upset with her for putting them in this predicament. Finally Evelyn ASKS for help and the family slowly (and somewhat incompetently) responds. The scene is really, really well-written, and it adds immeasurably to our understanding of the family dynamics.

Evelyn is unique in the household, and, despite the huge family, is fundamentally alone in many ways. Her husband is an unreliable contributor, both financially and emotionally. So many of the burdens that come with raising a family fall squarely and soley on her. And not only does she not get the credit she deserves, but she has to endure her husband acting like a baby because her winnings make him the object of ridicule at work; instead of feeling gratitude from him, she has to constantly soothe his self-pity.

That's why, for me, it was so damn poignant when she made some friends among the Affadaisies. It was almost like she recaptured part of her youth, and she was suddenly in a situation where she was being nurtured by others, as well as nurturing them, and she really thrived. Her connection with the woman in the iron lung was especially touching in this regard because they both were trapped by circumstances, either literally or figuratively, and that backdrop made the freedom they felt in each other's company especially sweet. Evelyn's many travails in trying to meet her friends were almost Odyssean. She was trying to get "home" (where she intellectually belonged) and kept getting thwarted by the monsters and Sirens that were needy kids, money woes, domestic emergencies and car trouble.

Another scene, one of my favorites in the book, that highlighted her uniqueness was when she won the grocery shopping spree and she was immediately drawn to a bunch of expensive, exotic food. The family was sort of horrified. Tuff writes:

No one was going to eat the caviar.
"Do you know that U.S. Army research has shown a relationship between intelligence and a willingness to eat unfamiliar foods?" Mom said.
Except for Mom, nobody would eat the lobster either — it was just too different from fish sticks.

A pregnant woman

From kc:

I was very touched by the revelation at the end that Evelyn "had" to get married, as evidenced by the grey dress and weird wedding date. The same thing happened to my mom, and to this day she has never told me that she "had" to get married. The shame that attended an unwed pregnancy stayed with her, even though she herself, like Evelyn, would never judge another woman for that. Evelyn even tells Tuff "not to judge" somewhere in the book. And I remember my mom telling me that "getting pregnant is not the worst thing" that could happen to a girl, and I think it was her way of countering all the idiots who acted like it was, of making her daughters not feel Dorrie's desperation in "A Kiss Before Dying."

I think Tuff had a persistent sadness about her mom's life, even though it was also a source of great joy and inspiration to her. She knew that in another world her mother could have been a professional writer, could have traveled all over, could have afforded new girdles, or wouldn't have felt compelled to wear a girdle at all! could have ended up with a man who was a better companion in life. And yet she has this beautiful admiration of how her mother began her married life by being trapped (by the pregnancy) and made more of her fate than most people could imagine. She lived her life.

Evelyn and Tuff in 1996
It also has struck me that Tuff grew up to be a lesbian. And I could see the generous-hearted Evelyn, if she knew, submitting a poem to the local paper: My kid is gay, and that's OK.